BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord

[sjs63]

I tried to no avail to play this chord for a couple of months.  I blamed the fact that I am a woman so my hands are smaller.  It came down to hand strength.  I started practicing all sorts of scales, just because I'm nuts and like the technical stuff.  Lo and behold, after a couple of weeks I could play F with no problems.  I railed about the full barre chords being torture designed by a man with big mitts.  I started working on the 12 bar blues and the full barre chords are starting to materialize most of the time.  I just had to be patient and develop the hand strength. 

[Smilemaker]

OK, I can get the bar by itself and the E shaped with my 2, 3, and 4 fingers, but when I do them together, the B string is always muted.

[ComfyJammies]

I think that's totally normal, probably took me a month of practice before the b string rang out somewhat consistently.  Took me 4-5 months before the F felt pretty comfortable, and it seems to get better with more and more time.   I remember a lot of pain in my had to get the strength up to be able to do it.  And what's really strange is after going through months of pain trying to get the strength and muscle memory, it actually takes less tension.  I have no idea why, but once you get it, relaxing seems to make it work even better.  Just keep practicing, it'll get there.

[Smilemaker]

I think that's totally normal, probably took me a month of practice before the b string rang out somewhat consistently.  Took me 4-5 months before the F felt pretty comfortable, and it seems to get better with more and more time.   I remember a lot of pain in my had to get the strength up to be able to do it.  And what's really strange is after going through months of pain trying to get the strength and muscle memory, it actually takes less tension.  I have no idea why, but once you get it, relaxing seems to make it work even better.  Just keep practicing, it'll get there.

Thanks CJ. So it seems like it is acceptable to go on to stage 7 as long as I am making reasonable progress. I have, however, decided to spend another three weeks on stage 6 to intensify the method and to consolidate the material in 1 - 6. Do most people use strictly the bar F while learning it with songs even though it sounds bad or do most people use the mini F while working on the bar F independently, then incorporate it into the songs when it is good?

[ComfyJammies]

I think I spent a good 2-3 months just on stage 6, just to practice that F.  The other thing I told myself I'd do is try to always use the barre F and not the "mini F", because using the barre F makes you practice it in songs and that helps getting better.  If you use the mini, you aren't practicing the barre in songs, and then how will you ever get it?  I'm on stage 9 now, and after playing the barre F for 6-7 months, I can choose to use the mini-F now if I want.   One thing I did over and over is the All Along the Watchtower chord progression with the strumming pattern shown in the book.  I'd just sit and do it over and over, and that got me practice at going between the F and and Am and G, plus a cool strumming pattern.  I go back to that as a little warmup sometimes.   You gotta do the 1 minute changes for all the F-changes, a lot.  I really did those for months, until they were pretty much all well over 50 per minutes (The C-F over 60).    Some people get the F really easily, for others like me, it has taken months, and there is still room for improvement! (My pinky is unusually short, like only halfway between those 2 middle knuckles, so I have interesting challenges in just getting my pinky to reach, in addition to the barre!).  I'd say move to the next stage when you can do F-C, F-G, F-Am, F-D all preferably over 50.   Then just doing some of the F changes each day, rotating which ones need work.   Let It Be  by the Beatles is a good practice one too, it goes C-G-Am-F-C-G-F-C.

[Diamond Dave]

My experience with F: I'm being "anal" and have made a chart in which I've logged every chord combination in the beginner's course (I think there are 275...I didn't include the variations on G or the mini-F) and I now can switch between about 255 of them at 60 changes per minute. Like I said, anal. All I have left is all the F barre combinations, except for F-C, which I did last night. 

Anyway, with me, the F barre has been a challenge, at first because I actually cut my index finger at the knuckle pressing down on the B and high E strings, so I had to let that heal and work up a little callous. Presently, the challenge is just one of dexterity: teaching my fingers to move quickly enough from F to the other chord, trying not to "manufacture" the chord (I have a habit of setting my ring and pinky fingers down, then my middle, then the bar with my index, which takes time) but rather just try to press all the strings at once or at least compress the process. I probably need to practice some air changes to get the chord fretted more quickly. And others are right--it does seem that it requires less pressure with your index finger the more you practice it. I think you find that magic spot on your index finger knuckle that fits the strings and it takes little pressure when you're there.

Work slowly and make sure it rings out cleanly. No need to practice one-minute changes if you're teaching your hand to fret a lousy barre on the first fret. I think this is by far the hardest thing a beginner has to learn; the F# chord is miles easier (one fret down) because you're not right up against the nut. Suck it up, learn it right (especially on the acoustic; it's cake on my electric from a pressure standpoint) and I think it will pay off in spades.

[Bobke]

Hi, I have a simple question and it is not important to be playing the F barre chord at all, but after a while it is starting to haunt me.....: WHAT does the "R" in the circel at the end of the barre itself in the chord diagram mean? 
I have read through the topics, used the search mode, read the texts, but can not figure it out. I fear it will be so simple it will make me blush. Please help. 

[jacksroadhouse]

R = Root note, indicates which of the notes is the root of the chord.

[Smilemaker]

For the first week of session 6, I just about decided to settle for the mini-F due to frustration with the barre. Finally, one night I said, I'm gonna do that barre chord! I weigh 220 Lbs and have good hand strength. I have seen petite ladies 1/2 my size use the barre, so I will too! I finally got it to ring true consistently about 10 days ago, and have been working on the speed. I'm up to about 50 changes per minute now, even though they don't all sound great during the exercise. It's funny, but I had to go through a phase of pushing hard until one day I just placed my finger in the barre position and it just felt right. I strummed and it was great. Anyway....just thought I would share my story.

[valleyboy74]

Just started on stage 6 on the weekend and wow, this F chord is hard!!!

I'm fairly strong and have had no major problems with the course so far (apart from changing to B7) so think I'll stick with the 'big' F at the moment, however I'm finding that everyone is talking about the muscle beneath the thumb hurting but I'm finding my forearm is aching, is this right?

I can get 4/5 strings ringing some of the time so hope I'll get the hang of it after a few weeks.

One more point, all the 1 minute changes involves the F chord, but if I can't do it yet do I still practise getting my fingers in the correct positions or is this a waste of time until I can play the chord properly.

Cheers
valleyboy74

[Diamond Dave]

I'm finding my forearm is aching, is this right?

Sure--just ask a typist! All the tendons and nerves in the hand are connected to the wrist and forearm. You may be pressing too hard. The barre doesn't require strength so much as technique--finding that index finger positioning that frets the E,B and low E. I play all my chords better when I relax my left arm and hand; maybe try not even using a pick but just strumming gently with your right fingers. R-e-l-a-x. My newbie $0.02.

[ComfyJammies]

Hi valleyboy74, if you just started this weekend, just keep at it!  It's so much about muscle memory and training your fingers to do it, even if you have "strength".  As a woman I had to also get more strength in those muscles in the thumb, and now that it's there, it still is about positioning of my barre finger and the others.   The one thing you want to be sure you aren't doing is the "claw", where you bend your wrist a lot to get your fingers to reach.  Otherwise, yes, having some muscle soreness is your forearm is probably normal.  I was surprised how much my forearm worked when I was learning the chuck for the percussive strumming.  Guitar just uses different muscles!   So anyway, just keep it up, spend a good amount of time doing the pick and strum, like 5 minutes, and I say, yes, try the one-minute changes, even if you only do 15 in a minute!

[cestevespr]

Maybe someone can help. I am not sure when I do 1 minute chord changes with F if I only count the F chords that sound good as a change or if i just get fingering what i think is correct?

[shadowscott007]

If I recall Justin's instructions correctly, it doesn't have to be perfect but it can't be complete rubbish either.  There is a wide span there.

I would say all the fingers in the correct position but a couple unintentionally muted strings would count as acceptable for the quick change exercise.  Working on getting everything perfect should be done separately at a more sedate pace.

My two cents

Shadow

[Diamond Dave]

If I recall Justin's instructions correctly, it doesn't have to be perfect but it can't be complete rubbish either.  There is a wide span there.

I would say all the fingers in the correct position but a couple unintentionally muted strings would count as acceptable for the quick change exercise.  Working on getting everything perfect should be done separately at a more sedate pace.

My two cents

Shadow

Nonsense. Perfection is expected at all times. 

No, I agree with Shadow. I think your gut and conscience will tell you when it's time to say you've mastered that chord pair, and to move on.