Author Topic: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord  (Read 51382 times)

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Offline justinguitar

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BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« on: October 07, 2009, 12:09:55 pm »
« Last Edit: October 07, 2009, 12:40:18 pm by justinguitar »
"You can get help from teachers, but you are going to have to learn a lot by yourself, sitting alone in a room." Dr. Seuss

Offline Tim Mason

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2014, 03:29:47 pm »
Most of the question that are asked in this thread are answered in the fuller lesson Justin gives on E-shaped barre chords here : http://justinguitar.com/en/IM-111-EShapeMajorMinorBarreChords.php. He recommends it during the 'Dreaded F Chord' lesson, and it's well worth visiting for the beginner.

Offline Acoustic

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2014, 05:24:56 pm »
Just a quick question:

I understand that getting the F chord is just a matter of practice, but sometimes when I try to barre the 1st fret with just my index (i.e. F chord w/o 2nd, 3rd & pinky down), the G string is literally impossible to get down, even if I try press it with all my strength and accuracy. Is this normal? Of course it's not an issue at the moment because the 2nd finger is there, but what happens in the future when I'll need to do variations of the F chord (or any barre chord) where my 2nd finger needs to come off?

Thanks

Offline Dr Winterbourne

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2014, 06:12:48 pm »
Acoustic,

I have boney, skeleton fingers, with big knuckles, and I find I need to position the bumps in the right place. Now, for F you dont need the G string down, because it is fretted higher up, but when it comes time for F minor, the G string will be open, so it is necessary. I find that if I roll my finger on its side and slide it upwards, like pointing it up towards the sky, the G string gets coverage.

It is basically, these are your hands, and you know what you have to do, which is cover all those strings well. Now, you have to find the way to make the hands you were born with do it. It is as easy and as hard as that. Your fingers need to press down the strings nicely. Make them, and then practice doing that quickly. I dont know any other way.

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Offline stitch101

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2014, 06:18:14 pm »
The G string is sitting in the crease of your knuckle. Try moving your finger up or down which ever works
for you or bend your finger slightly. When you learn minor barre chords you will need to play the G string
with your index finger. Also make sure your finger is as close as possible to the fret.

Offline shadowscott007

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2014, 02:49:47 am »
Deadeye, what about E shape bar chords other than F?  How do those work for you?  Start working on using the shape in other places in songs.  G at the thirdf fret, A at the fifth fret and the like.  F at the first fret is the hardest place to play it, using the shape in other places will pay dividends in the F at the first fret.

Shadow
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Offline deadeye_ag

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2014, 02:00:18 pm »
Shadow,

Yes, been practicing other E-shapes - E-shaped power chord and Bminor. Bminor can be troublesome too. I do find the further away from the nut, the easier to barre, up to the point where the frets so close together that two fingers on the E-shaipe smooth together

Offline Joerfe

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2014, 04:15:38 pm »
I find that practicing chords blind have helped me a lot. Grab the chord, strum, release grib and touch your leg with the fretting hand. Rinse and repeat.
When you touch your leg with the hand, you "reset" your hand.
I read about this somewhere but can't remember the source, but it helps me.
Next advice is to play as many songs as possible using this chord. Even make up your own progressions if needed.
/Jesper

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Offline Joerfe

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2014, 10:46:43 am »
It is much like the air changes that Justin recommends, but when you touch your leg this way you force the muscle memory to reset, so to speak.
Please note that this is my own recommendation based on my own experiences and put together from various internet based sources.

What do you know, my source is right here in two parts:
http://youtu.be/eGke17Rzn7U
http://youtu.be/xgpYwsP_6OI
/Jesper

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Offline Newand(hopefully)willing

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2014, 07:53:11 pm »
This might sound like common sense, but I'll leave it here anyway in hopes that it might help someone:

Don't try to do the changes before you have your F chord sounding clean and your index finger has adjusted a bit to the pressure.

 I "officially" went on to stage 6 today, but have been practicing F alongside other chords in the strum - pick out - strum portion since starting stage 5. Looking back on it now, there is no way that I could have made an effective start with the changes before i got the chord itself to ring out cleanly and toughened the side of the first finger up. Even now it is a bit sore due to so many Fs, but it is manageable.

So, save yourself the frustration and ease into this chord.

Offline tobyjenner

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2014, 07:45:15 pm »
Note sure if this is the right place for this questions as it more "The Dreaded F Chord in Stage 6 Songs"
I've managed to get my 1 min F chord changes to around the 60 mark and do a Forcing the Changes sequence of FCFC, FAmFAm, FGFG and FAmFG up to 80 bpm. But whenever I play a song I seem to go into freeze frame as the F goes down. Its really frustrating....for example "Please Forgive Me" Intro, Verse x 3 then big screech of brakes while I hit the chorus. Same story for most of the other Stage 6 songs apart from Hurt for some reason.

Views appreciated  8)

Plus having moved onto BC7 should I be getting these songs nailed before learning the BC7 songs (which I've been doing at the moment)?

Offline stitch101

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2014, 08:17:10 pm »
If you have the time keep learning the song your having trouble with, unless you dislike the song.
There's no point in learning songs you don't like.

As for you F problem just slow down and really focus on the changes your having trouble with.
Forcing the change is probable the best exercise to get the changes in the songs down.

Are you one minute changes clean and smooth or sloppy? If they're sloppy this is why you're having
trouble in songs. so slop then down until you can do them cleanly and start working up from there.

If your changes are clean at 60 per min. then it's a mental thing. Your thinking to much about changing
to the F chord when playing songs. Try playing the songs with the F in then when watching TV.
Sometimes the distraction help not to think about it and just do it.

Offline tobyjenner

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2014, 07:55:14 pm »
One minute changes are pretty smooth on both electrics up to 80 bpm but still struggling with the acoustic. Sure thats just finger strength, as I'm sure muscles take longer to develop as you get older. I tend do most of my song and chord change exercises on my HB30 and leave the acoustic for working on individual chords.

Will take your advice on slowing things down to get the mid song F changes improved but sometimes even at 40 bpm I still 'freeze' before I get the barre down - so it could be a mental things as well. So again back to basics and build up the speed bit by bit - too many good songs in BC6 & 7 but this time round I want to get things right, having wasted 18 yrs just mucking around.

BTW -  In a few post I've seen you mention raising the neck height / angle. Is this a good thing to be doing at BC level and what are the benefits, as I'm playing pretty perpendicular to the floor right now. Feel free to redirect this query to the appropriate place if that will help others.  8)

Offline stitch101

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2014, 08:35:49 pm »
It a good question for any part of the forum.
When your guitar is level it puts extra pressure on your wrist and the back of the hand restricting
movement. It can also damage tendons. Every body want to look cool when they play so the hang
their guitar low. But if you look at the best Rock guitarist they hang their guitar low but also have the
neck on a pretty good angle upwards. They also have years and years of playing under their fingers
and like athletes their tendons are stretched out and they can play at a lower angle.

So when learning it help a great deal especially on barre chord like the F barre to have your guitar on
an upward angle. This keep your wrist straight. Look up pictures of your favorite guitar players and
look at the angle of the neck of their guitar. Very few have it straight.
Here's a picture of Richie Blackmore.


SRV

   

Offline tobyjenner

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2014, 09:14:06 pm »


OK after 24 hrs sussing out how to load images.............yep I get your point Stitch.

Having said that I normally practice sitting down.....in an office chair (bad I know).....and tried getting the neck up as demonstrated in the pics, not very easy or comfortable.

Should I now be strapping and standing?